Magneto Overhaul

WEBSTER INFORMATION


Subj:	Testing Webster Tri-polar
Date:	96-11-27 11:41:45 EST
From:	gsb@plaza.ds.adp.com (George Best)

Thought I'd add something about stationary engines since that's what this
list should really be about.

Following info taken from old Webster repair manual:

Testing magneto for voltage.

Remove the inductor springs and spring arm and drive the magneto at 500 RPM.

[You need a variable speed lathe, drill press, or motor connected to the
magneto shaft to turn it at the needed 500 rpm.]

Check the voltage generated by the magneto with a AC voltmeter.  If the
voltage produced by the magneto is at or above the amounts listed below, the
mag is good.

If the voltage is low, remagetize the magneto and test again.  If after
remagetizing it is still low, then the coil or magnet is bad.

Type   Volts

M      8.5
MM     13
K      9.5
L      11.5
JZ     11
JY     15
PY     20
1A     9
1E     25
1F     14
2C     12

Note: voltage reading for 1E may not come up to 25 volts unless the
voltmeter is of the high resistance type.  On an ordinary voltmeter this
reading will probably show around 17 volts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 George Best     gsb@plaza.ds.adp.com (days) or best@nwpower.net (eves)
 Portland, OR
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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WICO INFORMATION

Subj:	Wico Magneto
Date:	96-07-07 16:31:03 EDT
From:	markos@ix.netcom.com (Mark F. Almond)

I have a Wico magneto that has a low output of voltage. The spark is 
sorta orangish color. I would ideas of what is wrong? All replies will 
be of value. 
===========================================
Subj:	Re: Wico Magneto
Date:	96-07-07 18:48:04 EDT
From:	drotigel@westol.com (Dave Rotigel)

|I have a Wico magneto that has a low output of voltage. The spark is 
|sorta orangish color. I would ideas of what is wrong? All replies will 
|be of value. 
|
|Hi Mark, See Harry's Mag page!!!(concentric.net/~matthews/magneto.htm). 
Other than that, try charging the magnets, replace the condenser and make 
sure you have a good ground. Start in the inverse order--it's cheaper :) 
        Good luck!

David E. Rotigel and Sons
===========================================
Subj:	Re: Wico Magneto
Date:	96-07-07 19:25:52 EDT
From:	dotto@micron.net

Also on the Wico make sure the poles are Clean,Clean,Clean and when
the Mag operates it needs to open with a quick snap. If it is dirty and
gummy it will not operate properly.

The other Dave
===========================================
Subj:	Re: Wico Magneto
Date:	96-07-07 20:06:41 EDT
From:	Matthews@cris.com (K2AOU)

On Sun, 7 Jul 1996, Mark F. Almond wrote:

| I have a Wico magneto that has a low output of voltage. The spark is 
| sorta orangish color. I would ideas of what is wrong? All replies will 
| be of value. 

This is the second message I've seen regarding an ORANGE spark.  The
first person said that he was told to have the magnets recharged.
Anyone have ideas regarding spark color?  I suppose the old STAR
temperature story of red-hot white-hot and blue-hot applies.  Blue
being the hottest of them all and red being not so hot.  If this is
the case then "color temperature" may be a good indicator of just how
hot the spark really is.  If I had a test lab variable high voltage
power supply, this would be a great experiment!

-- Harry
=========================================== 
Subj:	Re[2]: Wico Magneto
Date:	96-07-09 00:20:22 EDT
From:	gsuaning@cochlear.com.au

     
I've run into similar problems with outboard motors. A method to see if the 
magnet is too weak...If the engine still runs at higher revs, start it up and
adjust the throttle just above the speed at which the engine starts to
sputter. 

As the temperature of the magnet increases, its strength will decrease
slightly (so too will the strength of the spark) and after a while the engine should
die if the magnet is too weak. It won't re-start until the magnet cools. It works
with Evinrudes anyway.

If there are two magnets, don't assume that just one will be weak...I wasted
a weekend assuming this.

Gregg
 
==========================
Subj:	Re: Wico mag overhaul
Date:	96-07-09 22:49:15 EDT
From:	Matthews@cris.com (K2AOU)
To:	thompson@darwin.psy.fsu.edu (Ron Thompson)

| Different tacks ! the two on the sides are in the middle of the coils and 
| have nice rounded buttons. The ones I am talking about are located at the 
| top (I think) edge of the coils with real sharp points sticking out about 
| 3/8".

I had a chance to get into a Wico tonight and learned a bit more about
them.  I was concerned that a couple of my Wicos had an open circuit
test between the two high voltage (outside center) terminals.  I found
that the "tacks" you refer to are the interconnection between the two
secondary coil windings.  It looks like a jumper and on the assembled
mag end up right over the top of the terminal for the points.

The jumper is actually a spring coil inside an insulation sleeve.
This is simply allowed to slip onto one sides tack and then bend
over and slip onto the other sides tack.  This simple contact allows
for corrosion to take hold over the years, but for the most part it
doesn't matter.  The high voltage will jump over the minute gap unless
it gets really crapped up.  It can be cleaned by simply slipping it
off and back on again.  I'd recommend that "if it ain't broke, don't
fix it!  Of course if you are installing new coils, this is how it 
goes together.  Primary resistance 0.8 ohm on each side and the 
secondary reads 8300 ohms side to side for BOTH.

I put a new capacitor in as the old one was showing leakage current
on my ohm meter.  And, I couldn't resist polishing up the brass
cover and stripping the paint from the front and back plates.  They
appear to have a zinc plating.  A new coat of black on them and a
couple coats of Rustoleum clear on the brass cover and It'll be
ready for reassembly.

Someone on the group mentioned that "if you can't pull the armature
open by hand, the magnets are OK."  I'd like something a little
more scientific than that, but there are no gauss meters or whatever
in my inventory.  I'll have to come up with another test method,
maybe a spring scale for the pull-apart test?

Well, so much for now...
-- Harry

==================================
Subj:	Re: Wico mag overhaul
Date:	96-07-11 09:04:33 EDT
From:	Matthews@cris.com (K2AOU)
To:	thompson@darwin.psy.fsu.edu (Ron Thompson)

I was working on the mags again last night.  I have all FOUR of them
put back together now.  If anyone you know has Wico trouble - #1 clean
the points,  #2 clean up the oil and sludge buildup, and #3 change the
capacitor.  Cheap maintenance compared to sending it in for a $100 or
$200 overhaul.

I am able to "snap" open all the armatures with a screwdriver blade and
draw an arc off the plug wires so I guess I'm all set.  I also had
the Witte 5HP up and running last evening, just for kicks.

Harry Matthews
=====================================



MISCELLANEOUS MAGNETO INFORMATION


=====================================
Subj:	Mag problems
Date:	96-07-08 17:23:25 EDT
From:	todd@txdirect.net

I purchased an Bosch AB-33 from Robert L. Whittaker about two weeks ago and
the thing already quit on me. I only ran it for a total of about an hour and a half. Of
course it wasn't even a AB-33, He sent me a AB-34. What's going on here? This has got
to be the sorriest job of rebuilding something I've ever seen. If it cost $50 then it's
expected, but $280. I'm sending it back and getting Ted Brookover to build me
one. 

I just wanted everyone to know. 

Todd
==========================
Subj:	Re: Mag problems
Date:	96-07-08 20:31:37 EDT
From:	mogul@stlnet.com (Charles R. Bryant)
Sender:	owner-stationary-engine@indiana.edu

At 04:05 PM 7/8/96 -0700, you wrote:

Todd,

Someone else that is real good on the AB-33 is Mitch Malcolm
of Lightning Magneto. These are pretty difficult mags. Jack Chandler
of Carthage,MO is also pretty experienced on them but I think he is
doing mostly tractor mags now. Ted will do you a good job I am sure.
I've sold mags to to Whitaker but have never bought anything from
him. Good luck.

Charlie
=======================================
Subj:	Re: Mag Coil Winding
Date:	96-09-02 10:31:30 EDT
From:	mogul@stlnet.com (Charles R. Bryant)

At 06:08 AM 9/2/96 -0700, you wrote:
|I knew this day would come sooner or later. I have a mag that appears to 
|have a secondary that's truly shot. I have had success peeling back a few 
|layers and finding a good end but this time it's not panning out. Does 
|anybody know who can rewind a coil(on pole piece) or otherwise have 
|access to literature that might have some hints on how many turns I need 
|to go if I wind my own.
|
|Alan Black

Alan,

The best in the country is: Jack Hurt
                            J&M Carousel
                            1711 Calavaras Drive
                            Santa Rosa, CA  95405
                           

                            Ph/Fax:  707-544-1026
                            Ph/Fax   800-789-1026

We had a coil from a Japanese engine other winders could not do.
Jack did it promptly and it was perfect. 

Charlie