Derusting with Mollasis / Mollases

Ron Frost ron217_2000@yahoo.com asked:

I'm also impressed.

I have a fair sized rust removal project ahead of me soon. The Bantam tractor is in big need. I have a 55 gal. plastic barrel. If I were to remove one end, I think I can get all the parts in it.

What ratio of molassis to water do I need? Will it also work where old paint is still present?

RonFrost
Kersey, PA

Ron ...........i dont think the ratio is too important ,we have been using [roughly] 20 parts water to 1 of molassis. No it wont in our experience remove paint . Ken ...........thats what it was like straight out of the bath . I am now going to try and get it up onto Webshots .
Peter and Jo Ogborne
Trigg Western Australia

Dried Molasses are available quite easily from horse feed suppliers in handleable sacks, we still have a half sack up the field :-))

Peter & Rita Forbes
email:- diesel@easynet.co.uk
Lister Cold-Starting Diesel Engines
Engine info etc at:-
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I'll bet it's a joy handling one of those sacks after it gets a good rain on it out in the field!

How many times can you use the same batch? Does fermentation decrease the effectiveness? Does the presence of dissolved metal spoil the flavor?

Regards,
Ron Carroll
Maytag Eastern Focus Point
Nokesville, Virginia USA
maytagtwin@aol.com
Security by Duke, the Dangling Wiener Dog

The limit to how many times you can use the batch is only governed by the amount of shit that accumulates in the bottom of the tank ,ie oxide that is removed . Fermentation .......dont think that matters ,a guide to say that it is all working appears to be the presence of a frothy scum on the surface . Presence of dissolved metal spoiling the flavour ........ Well i know that we Australians are well known for liking a drink but molassis and water .......no , not yet , i have a preference for beer . So in answer to your question ...."dont know " But i would like to hear of anyone who has some ideas why it works By the way after our mix has done a lot of work and by that i mean it could be three or four months old we put an air hose into it and give it a good aerating that seems to revive it .

Peter and Jo Ogborne
Trigg Western Australia
jopetertrigg@optusnet.com.au

Well, as it is a by-product of sugar, and not something that grows on trees as some seem to think, it is pretty sweet and sickly, which is why the nags like it as a supplement, pretty sharp after grass and hay!

I am not sure which natural acids are present as the sugar wouldn't do much in the way of rust removal by itself, and also assume that it is from cane rather than beet ??

Peter & Rita Forbes
email:- diesel@easynet.co.uk
Lister Cold-Starting Diesel Engines
Engine info etc at:-
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel

Well I just got done putting some iron into a barrel of molassis water. Cut the top out of a plastic 55 gal. barrel, added about 25 lbs. of dry molassis and 55 gal of good old H2O. Got most of the frame of the Bartam under the muck along with the seat and hood.I'm sure I'll be keeping a close eye of the progress and will update as time passes.

Ron Frost
Kersey, PA

My hypothesis is that the likely mechanism of action is aerobic bacterial fermentation producing organic acids that dissolve the rust. The observation that bubbling air through it for a while reactivates it would seem to bear this out. I've tried Ken's sorghum molasses straight, undiluted (at which concentration the fermenting organisms are inhibited by the high osmotic pressure), and it didn't work. Dilute it down with water and let it sit for a while and it's potent stuff!

Most molasses comes from cane. I think the raw beet juice that sugar's also extracted from is pretty disgusting stuff and requires a high degree of processing.

BTW, you Aussies who turn up your nose at fermented molasses, where do you think rum comes from?

John

Where can you get dry molasses and how expensive is it? I was wanting to try them but all I had was to Qt's of sorghum molasses that I paid $8.00 dollars a qt. for plus I was sure wanting to enjoy eating them. Thanks

Bill Miller
Memphis, TN.
billmil357@aol.com

I bought this dry stuff at an Agway farm supply store. It comes in a 50 lb. paper bag and cost $8.59. On the bag it says that it is used as a supplement for hores feed and also can be added to silage to help with the fermentation prosess. It has fiber in it where, I suppose the cane was ground. I tasted it and it tastes like molassis.

Ron Frost
Kersey, PA

Don't expect results very fast with the mollases derusting. I've had an 8 inch cast iron wheel is bucket of that stuff for a week now. It appears to be working, but it is going to be a while yet before it gets the job done.

Glenn Karch, Haubstadt, IN
Hercules Historian
glenn.karch@GTE.net

Bill, I've purchased dry mollases from Tractor Supply but you should also be able to purchase it from any farm feed supplier, i.e. elevator or such as it is used to mix in cattle and horse feed. Geo.

To all interested .........we have never used molassis in powder form so i dont know what the results will be . If you look at the size of the bath we use [ ex coca cola concentrate container] we put in a 20 ltre drum of liquid molassis.Something that in our experience has payed off is to make sure that all oil and grease etc is removed first ,we use a hp water wash . Barry Gorman ........i dont think it will hurt your old alloy outboards but ,best try a test piece !

To whoever it was that said '' after one week nothing had happened ,give it at least three to four weeks .

I have had all sorts of theories put forward ranging from rust loving bacteria munching away at the rust to an ion exchange being set up due to the high alkalinity of the mix . I have had chemists scratching their heads and agricultural scientists looking in their books . A friend in South Africa has a theory that sounds good .......i will post it later,have to ask him first as he is not on the list.

Just a thought is the Sorghum that You have in the US also known as Indian Cane and is this used to make a boutique sugar ? Maybe our Australian sugar cane is different. Please let the list know of your results

I will put more pics on Webshots [ when i can find the bloody upload button ]

To Grant Weir up there in the frozen north [ Canada] you had better try it before your bath freezes over.......thats another thought maybe our hot climate has something to do with our success. A note to all fishermen ........a by product of the treatment is that you will accumulate a good supply of maggots on the frothy top scum that forms ,they make good bait .

Peter and Jo Ogborne
Trigg Western Australia
jopetertrigg@optusnet.com.au

Quit a while ago I used (diluted) muriatic acid to de rust sheet metal. It worked well, fast, no "nasty side effects" (like bugs). The items must be cleaned of oil and grease. The items *must* be completely submerged. When done, immediately rinse and dry.

Obviously, this is more aggressive than molasses. Are there other reasons to avoid this? perhaps it isn't good for cast iron? (I only used it for sheet steel)

Dave Tief. N1WWY, Addie Tief. N1XQP
Tribble, Noodles, Cecil, Bandit and Magic.
Visit our web page at http://users.abac.com/dandatief
See the bunnies, generators, and progress on the tractor and owner-builder house

Hi mates
I work in sugar mill/refinery, I will find out tomorrow for you all, we have molasses coming out of our ears.

I will run a comparison on a bunch of diiferent metals and let you all know the results.

Most of our Molasses goes to stock feed, but we are getting a lot more enquiries as food additives. Molasses is the final dregs after 3 runs through (thru) to boiling process.

Regards
Peter, Oz,
plowe@turboweb.net.au
http://www.oldengine.org/members/plowe

Ok, I had a plastic 55 gal. barrel with one cut out. Went to the local Agway (farm supply store) and bought 50 lbs. of Westway Feed Products dried molasses.

Ingredance (SPELLING) Molasses Products
Roughage products
4% crude protein
.1% crude fat
24% crude fiber
38% sugar (Invert)
6% moisture

I put about 25 lbs. of molasses in the barrel then using a garden and sprayer added 50 plus gals. of water.

Using the sprayer did a good job of mixing.

That's it.

The fiber is all over everything when you pull the piece out but washes right off. I check it once a week and the second week when I could see something happening, I hand wire brushed the pieces and rinsed. Then just put them back in. The third week all I did was to use a soft bristle scrub brush and the rinse.

I still need to know what to use to create a smooth surface on the hood and frame

Ron Frost
Kersey, PA

I cant comment on removing the goopy , and I think we are still waiting on the chemistry . But once the rust has been removed I stabilize it with Ospho or more the norm a tannic acid preperation . Sand it smooth and apply a primer surfacer and wet sand it with 400grit . depending on the surface it may take two coats + bondo or icing for the real big pits or just spot putty if they are not too deep . A primer sealer on top of all that keeps anything from bleeding through the color coat . These fillers and a lot of sanding /checking and resanding will render once again to a mirror finish .